tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post7299906407440809650..comments2024-03-27T13:34:10.184+00:00Comments on NORTH DOWNS & BEYOND: Will birding ever be 'cool'?Steve Galehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-61682264112625953472014-02-15T08:30:48.441+00:002014-02-15T08:30:48.441+00:00We agree Seth, but my point isn't that there a...We agree Seth, but my point isn't that there are not 'cool' birders out there (cos there clearly are), it is that as a complete package it is naff. In the 21st century, with so much to compete with, the chance to convert youngsters to birding has never been so fleeting.Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-8150496033869127602014-02-15T00:04:07.581+00:002014-02-15T00:04:07.581+00:00Maybe I ought to have waited until the vino had wo...Maybe I ought to have waited until the vino had worn off before attempting that previous comment....Gibsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699055561230102061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-57630059124785077492014-02-15T00:03:15.092+00:002014-02-15T00:03:15.092+00:00As a full-time 7.5T lorry driver, I may not come a...As a full-time 7.5T lorry driver, I may not come across as the most obvious candidate for being a nature-nut/madcap keen birder! But, time after time, whenever I'm put with an agency driver's mate/new bod and (inevitably...) start chatting birds/butterflies/whatever the other person slowly begins to reveal their own interest in nature, their own tale of when they saved a sparrow from the cat, that time they fed the swans, the butterfly stuck in the kitchen, the spider in their bath. Everyone (yup, everyone) has a nature-tale to tell. They're just waiting for the right person to initiate the conversation. As Graeme so proudly boasts, I don't look like a birdwatcher. Hopefully neither do I. Yet I have been for over 30 years. 'Cool' isn't part of it. Confidence is the key. If you come across as a bit street I think you'll get away with it, often as not. <br /><br />As for cycling - just an excuse for grown men to wear tight fitting lycra and get away with it, buncha bloomin' weirdos ;) Gibsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699055561230102061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-8893152823294403382014-02-14T19:30:34.875+00:002014-02-14T19:30:34.875+00:00Thanks for the comment David and good to hear from...Thanks for the comment David and good to hear from you. In some ways 'my' generation and those subsequent did a poor job at creating a birding world that was appealing to a significant cross-section of people. I hope that the media-savvy and confident new generation (of which you are a significant member), will do a better job. Over to you...Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-72107123208073907652014-02-14T18:51:30.901+00:002014-02-14T18:51:30.901+00:00Interesting post Steve. I don't think you'...Interesting post Steve. I don't think you'll ever be able to look for Waxwings in an urban street without receiving funny looks and feeling, unless you're brimming with self-confidence, very awkward about the whole thing. Largely birding is not ever going to be perceived as 'cool' but I think there are times that it could/is. Birding does have some 'cool' representatives; more young people would surely be drawn in if more of us were like David Lindo or Josh Jones. I was not a closet birder at school and this caused me trouble up to perhaps year 9 but ever since I've had nothing but positive responses from people when they learn about my hobby. I'm pretty good at picking up when people are taking the piss and can report with some confidence that lots of young people I come across now think my birding is a great hobby, many have expressed their admiration for having such a passion. I'm taking out my uni flatmates to Oare Marshes in spring. I'll most probably never be cool but I believe that I have a very cool hobby, some outsiders probably just don't see it that way! If you take away the self-harming, the film Pelican Blood has a couple of examples of what I would label a 'cool birder'.David Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03936919745022906765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-86277742498144639032014-02-14T12:06:53.780+00:002014-02-14T12:06:53.780+00:00Thanks Steve! But here is the irony, if anyone had...Thanks Steve! But here is the irony, if anyone had ever said anything like that to me as a child, rather than the bullying and neglect that I received, I probably never would have got into birding and natural history at all! At university I opted out of natural sciences and have never done as little natural history as I did in those four years. There is something to be said for doing things back to front!Graeme Lyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07105938845237816643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-49242361989253564922014-02-14T08:34:03.405+00:002014-02-14T08:34:03.405+00:00Graeme, you have an advantage - you are a confiden...Graeme, you have an advantage - you are a confident, tall, handsome chap (you owe me for that comment) who looks little like most of the motley crew that go birding. If birding were populated by people like you then the recruitment rate would no doubt be higher. But you obviously can see that there is an image problem here, that might seem trite on the surface, but does stop the younger element getting involved. As I have already said, most of the new recruits have already been converted (uni, studying sciences) - so we are not reaching beyond them in any meaningful way.Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-43902939574940599502014-02-14T08:28:26.638+00:002014-02-14T08:28:26.638+00:00Rob, you have clearly demonstrated the feeling of ...Rob, you have clearly demonstrated the feeling of awkwardness that can be present when out birding. I still feel this, even after doing it for forty years! When on a designated reserve, where most of who you bump into are fellow naturalists, this awkwardness does not exist. Last autumn I went looking for a rare fungus in woodland that was heavily used by dog walkers. I had my bins on. You should have seen the wary looks I got, even when I explained what I was doing. Most people just don't get it or trust those that do it. What chance do we have of encouraging more youngsters into it?Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-64308258372934652522014-02-13T22:16:46.197+00:002014-02-13T22:16:46.197+00:00Define cool! I wear my nerdiness like a badge of h...Define cool! I wear my nerdiness like a badge of honour and all my non-birding and non-naturalist friends have always thought I was really cool for doing what I do and I like to think my peers do to. I make a point of turning up to twitches looking as different to Ray Mears as I can, always fighting against the grain of crowd mentality. The way I see it, the only person who decides if you are cool or not is YOU.Graeme Lyonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07105938845237816643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-39523990000500838772014-02-13T21:49:49.155+00:002014-02-13T21:49:49.155+00:00I think twitching gives birding the image problem....I think twitching gives birding the image problem. I'm still fairly young being in my twenties and when I tell people in my cohort about what I do, I say I'm a naturalist rather than a birder. Once the usual joke about naturism is out of the way, people mostly seem to think it's a great way to spend your spare time. The image I think I'm projecting is of someone spending time outdoors, enjoying nature and learning things but all done fairly locally and not at the expense of the rest of my social life. "Cool", at least as I understand it, has something to do with not looking like you're trying too hard. When a horde of wax-jacketed, middle-aged, almost exclusively white men drive across half the country to see an LBJ, it screams "trying too hard" and appears a bit exclusive.<br /><br />I also think that the bins are also a bit of a problem. When you start out in the hobby you may be quite self-conscious and you have to walk around with this obvious signifier about your neck. It says "twitcher" to the general public while you're still working out whether this is really the hobby for you and how to tell the thrushes apart. I remember feeling very awkward the first time I went birding with a group in a more populated area.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01952785807539603397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-6405694660564414262014-02-13T20:03:29.023+00:002014-02-13T20:03:29.023+00:00No John, not old and cynical, just seen it all bef...No John, not old and cynical, just seen it all before.Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-38929059638315965502014-02-13T19:44:54.324+00:002014-02-13T19:44:54.324+00:00Steve,
There you hit on another struggle I have. ...Steve, <br />There you hit on another struggle I have. Of course you are right about data. However,does that matter? As the flooding in Somerset is proving (and so many other places) everything is done on cost benefit and at the moment cost is calculated in almost exclusively monetary terms. I suspect that one ear of a politician that the RSPB has, is close to one more than the BTO Atlas would reach. I am getting old and very cynical.<br />John<br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289405027710339067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-17642684379023135732014-02-13T19:37:54.538+00:002014-02-13T19:37:54.538+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289405027710339067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-31912039486787619412014-02-13T17:56:00.199+00:002014-02-13T17:56:00.199+00:00John, you are correct. What I was trying to sugges...John, you are correct. What I was trying to suggest is that when 'birdwatchers' become more than just those who put out food for our feathered friends, what they then become ('birders' for want of something to call them) are small in number and not terribly inspirational to those yet to be bitten by the bird bug. We need this transition to happen as this is where the future contributors to bird surveying will come from. No birder, no BTO Atlas. Five million RSPB members may have one ear of a politician, but without the foot-soldiers there would be a dearth of data.Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-77902945028577952662014-02-13T17:50:30.591+00:002014-02-13T17:50:30.591+00:00This is a difficult nut to crack Peter. I think th...This is a difficult nut to crack Peter. I think that 'bugs' and reptiles have a better profile with infant and junior schoolchildren than birds. Maybe they have had better PR? Steve Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09459545933323958452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-13245456989035101132014-02-13T17:14:09.611+00:002014-02-13T17:14:09.611+00:00Steve,
I think you are looking down the wrong end...Steve, <br />I think you are looking down the wrong end of your telescope:-). As you point out the RSPB (and the National Trust) can mobilize large numbers of people young and old who believe wildlife and conservation is worthwhile. <br /><br />Coolness will always be transient and I think truth irrelevant. <br /><br />"We need a population that understands our wildlife and appreciates it", I believe large numbers do but do not realise the full picture because those in political and corporate power will do everything they can to cloud the issue as Peter Alfrey is only too well aware.<br /><br />Also as you allude, any association the general public make between birdwatchers or naturalists and those driving the length and breadth of the country just to be able to say they saw a little brown job must be as bad as the influence of the politicians etc.<br /><br />Peter uses the word marketing I prefer education because the time to get them is when they are young.<br /><br />I now step down.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289405027710339067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8802206289996500659.post-16666923275598941852014-02-13T14:50:14.040+00:002014-02-13T14:50:14.040+00:00Good points. I agree public image of naturalists/b...Good points. I agree public image of naturalists/birders is very important- probably one of the most important challenges for conservation. The more people attracted into taking part in nature focused activities, the more value to the society and the greater protection to wildlife. It's a marketing and image challenge which I think could benefit from influences from the arts and creative fields- some kind of cross pollination of popular science (which is what birding is part of) and other elements of popular culture. Peter Alfreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06561747770128374819noreply@blogger.com